Chat with Manoj and Radha

Manoj and Radha arrived in Sydney, Australia about 18 years ago with their son Rohan, who was just 6 years old then. The reason they chose to migrate to Australia was ‘just stroke of luck’ – in their own words. Equally coincidentally they could have landed in Canada. Although, they definitely think Australia is one of the best countries in the world- considering the weather, sports and the fact that “it is not too big”. This opinion comes from Manoj- a person who has traveled more than 25 countries for work, and lived in a few of them for a couple years each, including, USA and Singapore!

Now, here is a surprise and actually, came to me as a shock- Rohan, their only son, who has been brought up in Sydney, has chosen to become a pilot. And no, the choice of his profession is not a shock- but the place where he has chosen to start his career is! It is none other than – Amchi Mumbai!!! ‘Reverse migration’ as Manoj chooses to call this!!! This is simply remarkable and I wanted to know from the couple what they felt about Rohan’s decision to go back to India. They said they were shocked initially too, but it did not come as a complete surprise to them. They believe he is likely to stay back in India for many years to come.

I will slightly change the format of this post and will present my findings in form of QA –a true interview format!

1) Did you intend to go back to India after, say 5 years or 10 years? Do you still plan to go back to India?

Like most of the migrants, the couple did think about going back after a few years. And like most of them, they did not- reason? Manoj says “It was fear of unknown than anything else that prompted us to want to go back to India. Also, initially, it was hard to settle down.” At this point, the couple is divided right at the center on whether they would want to return. They both love India and Australia- truly! Considering that their son has chosen to go to India, we will have to wait for time to tell what they end up doing!

2) Do you have any interesting stories to share about your early days in Sydney?

Some rather funny stories in Manoj’s own words:

“We actually used to think that Australia issued us visa because they needed us. When anyone got a reject letter from an employer, we used to call it discrimination. There was nothing like that.

When the going was tough, we tried silly things like – supplying food to Indian stores, selling odd things to stores and so on. It was high level stupidity. There was no chance of success as it wasn’t our core competency.

Understanding Aussie accent was the biggest joke. I had missed couple of interview calls because I actually went to a different suburb. Driving on Motorways was fun and challenging. My company car was a community car used for grocery shopping to picnics and you name it.”

3) What did your parents think of your decision to migrate at the time? And what do they feel now? How did they cope with meeting you from time to time?

Manoj says “My parents were very happy for us. Parents always supported us in the move. I guess as they grow old, it really hits you like a thunderbolt. But by that time, you are sucked in [to the new land]. So the parting is more difficult for those who have left the motherland than those who are left behind. Fortunately, both Radha and I have three other siblings – all back in Mumbai. So our parents did not feel a complete vacuum. Also, we have managed to visit them many times and they visited quite a few times.”

Manoj gave a very interesting pointer regarding parents and their visits to their place. He said that we, as first generation migrants, need to identify needs of our parents at their age. Most parents of first generation migrants may not be comfortable going out and about in the foreign land. They may feel dependent for small things such as buying a cup of coffee or tea outside. Not so in India, mind you! Manoj said that if you can give them the freedom to choose to visit you whenever they feel like and more importantly, leave when they want to, that would be a wonderful gift to them. It is a well established fact that most parents will be willing to do whatever child demands of them. It is up to the children to not misuse this luxury!

4) Rohan chose to go back to India for work- He may or may not settle there, but, just the fact that a kid who is raised abroad can go back to his roots is wonderful achievement in and of itself. Can you think of some things you, as parents, did, consciously or subconsciously that may have been the grounds of this decision.

Manoj says, “We are extremely fortunate to have a son like Rohan who loves both countries equally. The culture blossoms at home. We never gave Rohan false hopes. We are more his friends than his parents. We explain him the available options but inspire him to make decisions. We have told him that success is not easy. One has to work for it and sometimes, you may still not get there. But enjoy the process of getting to the top, even if you don’t actually get there. Follow your passion.”

Also, Manoj mentioned that starting as early as seven years, Rohan visited India all by himself, even if his parents were not able to do so. And there he was pampered by his many relatives that he almost always looked forward to going back to India. Radha said that they always encouraged him to speak in native language at home and even today, Rohan’s language is not a problem- he can be at home in both countries!

One of the common problems migrants from developing countries to developed countries have is that they expect the Motherland to change to suit their needs or vice versa. An example Manoj gave was sometimes we may think the silence in this country is eerie and at the same time we also complain about the rush in local trains or the constant stream of outside noise back home. Manoj mentions having taught his son- “The simple road to happiness is to accept places the way they are. Enjoy the positives and work on the negatives to make them better. Don’t be disheartened if things don’t change. Keep trying.”

Radha gave quite a few pointers too. She said being their only child she wanted to make sure that Rohan never felt lonely. A simple way they did that was to have only one television in the house. Not that they could not have afforded another TV but, making sure that even if they spent an evening or two watching the tube, they could do so as a family. Even if that meant Radha had to watch sports all the time and be woken up in the middle of the night for when a century was completed or when Rohan’s favourite rugby team scored a goal!

5) Tell us a little bit more about your friends here. I am sure they are like your second family now.

Manoj says “Our friends [in Australia] are like our family. We can count on them and we try to reciprocate the same way. One of the important aspects of a true friendship is that financial and other successes should not feature in a friendship.”
Their family is fortunate to know about 25 other families who had migrated around the same time and are still very close! Radha shared her story of leaving Rohan behind with one of their family friends when she needed to travel to India when her father was not keeping well.

6) Let us talk about your friends back in India. Some others mentioned that sometimes, because your life experiences are so different, formation of a big gap in old friendships is inevitable. Is that your experience too? If not, how have you managed to maintain long-distance friendships back in India?

Social networking tools are connecting long lost friends- years later. Radha mentioned about getting back in touch with some of her friends in India via Facebook.

Manoj says “Friendships are never limited to physical proximity. I may not talk to my University friends for months or years. But when we get a chance to meet, we enjoy the same bachelor type talk as if we never went on different paths. I believe in living life in its pristine form. Take the mask off, be true to yourself. Do not compare your achievements with someone else’s to the extent that it will kill you. In short – enjoy what you have and got instead of worrying what you haven’t got.”

7) Looking back, can you think of a couple of Do’s and Don’ts to get to where you are today? Essentially, some advice on raising kids abroad will be helpful.

General advice in Manoj’s own words:
a) Enjoy both places like ‘Maher’ (‘Maika’) and ‘Sasar’ (‘Sasural’). Meet your parents, family and friends back home as frequently as you can. They grow old – just the way you do.
b) Don’t compare. Avoid unfair expectation of yourself. Everyone is not going to be a ‘multi-millionaire’.
c) Don’t postpone a holiday back home, if you can help it.
d) Don’t make the people back home feel substandard by giving unnecessary comparisons with the new land.

Regarding raising kids, again in Manoj’s own words:
a) Be friends and honest with your kid.
b) Identify his / her passion. Don’t attempt to make him / her an architect because you happen to be one.
c) Inspire your kid in success and support during failure. Failure is as human as success.
d) Don’t put untoward expectations on your kid.
e) Don’t lose patience.

8) Where do you think you are- individually or as a family- on the Ethnic Self-Identification scale?

In Manoj’s own words- “Definitely ‘Integrated’- It is all in you. People will discriminate if you want to be discriminated. Be one of them. Have an occasional drink with them. Don’t say, “Indians do it this way”. Start conversation and don’t just wait for others to take a lead.
I have made friends in many countries around the world. We all are humans with similar characteristics. Remove the prejudices in your mind and the world will accept you the way you are.”

I think we got many nuggets of useful information from this wonderful couple. If I get a chance to speak with their son Rohan sometime in future, I will surely take that opportunity to ask him a few questions about his experience working in Mumbai, a city many of us love! I wish the family all the best for a very bright future!

Dialogue with Shilpa and Vijay

I met Shilpa* and Vijay* for the first time and we hit it off like old friends. My first interview was a spontaneous one and without an interview script, it was more like a dialogue. I must admit, I learnt a lot and hope to do justice to all that I was able to catch during our conversation.

Their Story
Vijay and Shilpa came to Sydney 17 years ago with their two sons, then 4 and 7 years of age. Having lived in Germany for a couple of years, they never really wanted to settle in a foreign country. Some of their friends who were already living in Sydney insisted that they try it out here. And that they could always return back to India if they chose to.

Unlike the situation now, where almost everybody in India you know has somebody abroad, and in some cases, it is the parents who insist that their kids go to a foreign country, their situation was different. Vijay being the "only-son" of his parents, they never imagined he would leave the country! Vijay, working in Mumbai in a sales role, said he did not remember when and how his younger one turned two! Long commute and working over the weekends and travel was taking its toll! Two incidents that he mentioned were when he wanted to get admission for his elder son in a prestigious school and they rejected their application on no grounds and secondly, for minor things like a swimming pool membership, there was a wait of couple of years at least! Incidents such as these led them to believe that maybe they should in fact take the opportunity to go and live in Australia.. For a few years after coming here, they thought they would go back. But as your kids start growing up, going back to India become challenging. And then as they say, rest is history

After all these years of living out of the country, I was truly amazed to hear that the boys look forward to going to India. And not just that, they are even eager to go there during certain festivals like the Kite festival that is celebrated in Gujarat- where their grandparents lived! But what about the pollution and the mosquitoes and other complaints that sometimes even yours truly has? Hmm...Shilpa revealed the secret- Not once did they criticize or point out the drawbacks of their motherland in front of their children. "Use as much odomas as you want or wear full pants or whatever, but this is how this place is and you will get used to it!" she said and I am sure meant it too :) It worked! Vijay added that when as little kids, the boys spoke to him in English, he would not respond. He told them he did not understand English and when the kids said that he did, Vijay asked them to speak to him in Indian English, a task impossible for Aussie accented kids:) So, here we have two boys who may speak to each other in English but speak with their parents in their mother tongue-Marathi. Culture goes beyond language and having met the boys in person, I must admit that Vijay and Shilpa have done a great job of raising good kids!

I asked them about their parents back home. Vijay admitted that till date this topic bothers him and poses a big dilemma. Having chosen to stay away from India for a wonderful lifestyle and great work-life balance, he has had to sacrifice being around his ageing parents. He feels sad that today, in spite of all he has achieved, he cannot even make one cup of tea for his mom and dad! His work takes him to India about 3-4 times in a year and he makes it a point to visit them each time, even for a day or two. His sisters stay close by and this is a big relief!


Been there..done that- Their advice

Do's

a) Language-Speak to your kids in your native language and encourage them to use the language too. However, bend this rule a bit if needed as you don't want to shut the communication lines if they are not in your preferred language!

b) Culture- When kids are young, enroll them in some class of Indian musical instruments. Not only will the child gain an invaluable skill, it will give them a wonderful introduction to an art from India.

c) Connection - Vijay and Shilpa made it a point to make that trip to India every two years even when the kids were grown up. In order to do so, they had to sacrifice visiting new places in Australia or anywhere else in the world! Today their sons are attached to India and also share a great relationship with their cousins and family back in India.

Don'ts

a) Don't enforce 'Indianness'- So you want your kids to develop that special connection with India...that does not mean you enforce 'indian-ness' on them. Remember the old adage of every coin having two sides. Vijay and Shilpa said that since we have been fortunate to see and live two different cultures, we should try and take best of both worlds.

b) Don't set too many rules for yourself when raising kids- Shilpa says listen to your kids more and think less about how you want them to be! Setting too many rules about how you want them to be may just lead to some disappointments!

Lessons learnt...from my perspective

a) Work-life balance- One of the reasons Vijay mentioned of leaving India in the first place was his belief that work in Australia may offer a better life- a good work-life balance.

As a kid, I remember my dad coming home late most days as he had a good 5 hours commute. Although I must admit remembering him finding time to give me my first painting lesson at 11:30pm !

As a parent, I see both, Harshal and I, spending most evenings with Arya and playing with her. I hope she too, like Vijay's son, remembers 'Daddy, this is the park we used to go to play when I was a kid'.

b)Perhaps the most important lesson I learnt was that it is ok to feel "Separated" and that it does not mean you are unhappy in life! It was quite strange to hear both Shilpa and Vijay say that on the ethic self-identification spectrum, they would classify themselves as "Separated". I would have assumed people would be hesitant to say so, and probably would take pride in saying they are "integrated" or even "assimilated"! They said, if their kids decide to leave Australia and perhaps go settle in USA, they would certainly go back to India. But if their kids stay in Australia, they would probably stay back! First generation migrants have a very difficult time and challenging role.

c) Vijay and Shilpa both said that friends in Aussie are like second-family but time has created a distance between their friends back in India. It is but natural that people who you celebrate special occasions with and who are with you on all festivals and holidays become just like your family! In a short period of five years, I must also admit have started losing touch of some of my friends who are in India. But thanks to social-networking sites, I no longer rely on that one email from them for updates. I hope to maintain those special bonds in spite of the distance and with quick scraps now and then!


At this point, I must probably mention that Vijay's is also a professional success story! The family had to struggle to get to where they are today and having survived some bad jobs early on, they feel blessed to be in a position they are now. However, in Vijay's definition of success, being a good father and a good husband supersedes professional success.

I believe they certainly have their priorities straight -a wonderful happy couple who is blessed with two good boys! I wish them the very best for the future!

*Only the names have been changed. All places and incidents are real.

Interview questionnaire

[A] Background information

Name (s) and lived in ____(country) since ___(yyyy)
Kids and ages and occupation
Your parents
Reasons for migrating

[B] Topics I would like to cover include the following. Any interesting stories, anecdotes or advice on each of these would be really appreciated.

1. Raising kids - Challenges and Accomplishments while raising kids, Their relationship with grand-parents, Connection with India, language and culture etc

2. Your Parents - Coping with the physical distance, ageing

3. Your friends - old and new

4. Ethnic self-identification and your plans to return to India

5. Your advice to first generation migrants who have just begun their journey. List of Do's and Don'ts (at least 3 of each would be great)

[C] Is there something I have forgotten to ask and what is your answer for that?

[D] Do you wish to remain anonymous or can I acknowledge you in my blog/ebook? Can I include a picture of your family?

[F] Contact Information
Phone, email and snail-mail

Happy New Year!

Wishing all a very happy new year! May this year bring you joy and fulfill all your dreams:)

I had my first informal interview with a wonderful migrant couple and will share it on the blog soon:) Meanwhile, I will leave you with an interesting quote by Albert Einstein "The only source of knowledge is experience!"